Galadria: Oh, noes! A Rant!

I feel the need…  It’s time.

The rant today is about the upcomming changes in the patch.  Specifically the lifting of the attunement in Hyjal and BT and those that are complaining about it.  There’s a lot of hullabaloo about it and I can actually see both sides.  Go read this post from Apathy, Inc. and these two posts from Blessing of Kings, all on this topic, so you know where I’m comming from and what I’ve been reading.

You back?  Not yet… … …  Darnit read faster!  Ok EVERYONE here?  Good.

First off, there is a reason for attunements.  T6 is hard to get for a reason.  There has to be a reason to keep playing once you hit 70.  For a lot of people, the game doesn’t really start until 70.  That’s the case for me, I mever really enjoyed leveling, but I LOVE raiding!  The whole reason I started playing this game was to play with friends.  Now I get to play with 10 or 25 of them; fabulous!  Where was I… oh yea…  Attunements force you to reach a certain point (mostly as a raid, not an indvidual) in your progress to move on to harder content.  You have to run a few 5-mans to get into Kara.  Then (previously) you had to kill Gruul and Mag to get into TK.  Then you kill Vashj and Kael to get into Hyjal and kill Rage to get into BT.  These are all stepping stones in your career as an end-game raider.  They also make sure you are ready to make the next step.  IMO, if you can’t kill Mag you’ve got no business in T5 content.  Same for Vashj and Kael. 

OTOH, Blizzard has put a lot of development time and $$ into developing this content and there’s a lot of people who will never see it with all the attunements in place; heck even with the attunements removed.  The last numbers I heard put the players who had seen the inside of BT at 2% (that figure is old, I’d hazard a guess at closer to 5% now, maybe as high as 10%; if anyone knows please comment and cite your source [Edit: read comments, appears to be around the 10% mark]).  That’s not very many.  Let’s think about how many T5 guilds there are out there.  Just looking at the blogs in my reader, probably half of them are in T5 content [Edit: read comments, it's closer to 15%].  With the attunements removed that’s a lot of guilds who might not have ever gotten both Vashj and Kael who will be able to at least see the first couple of bosses in Hyjal/BT before the expansion comes out.

For me, I think Blizz is going about this in the correct way.  Here’s the progression as I see it (and I think this is planned, not as a result of qq’ing).  When the content is first released, it’s very dificult to do on level and all attunements are in place.  The hard-core guilds have plenty of road blocks to lengthen the time it takes them to get through the content.  Then Blizz nerfs the really hard bosses to make it easier for the mid-level guilds to get thorough them.  This stage is where the game sits for the majority of the time.  Gradually Blizz lifts the attunements so the more casual guilds can get farther along with out bashing their skulls in.  This process lets the maximum number of players get what they want out of the game.  The hard-core get to do the content while it’s hard for the bragging rights and get to expirence “new” content for longer.  The more casual player gets to plod along at a slower pace and get it a little easier; they might never get through the content at its harder level.  Eventually they’ll at least get to see some of the really cool stuff.

So I ask… What in heaven and earth is the problem with letting anyone who has gone to the trouble of getting to 70 see the T6 content right before the expansion comes out and it all becomes obselete anyway?

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18 Comments on “Galadria: Oh, noes! A Rant!”

  1. Bruthah Says:

    /sigh

    You are completely right. I just wish Blizzard would stop giving my guild reasons to want to keep running Karazhan.

    Signed,
    Sick of Karazhan. ;)

  2. Moleculor Says:

    Part of the problem is precisely the one you outline in your post/rant. Content. With attunements removed, I may never see the inside of Serpentshrine Cavern. Why? Because it’ll be no longer required.

    I’m part of a very small guild that’s just starting to hit Karazhan. I’ve been trying for a MONTH now to get someone to run Heroic Arcatraz, Heroic Shattered Halls, and Heroic Shadow Labyrinth with me for the Trials of the Naaru. I managed to get a group together for Heroic Steam Vaults about a month ago, a PUG no less, though I lucked out and got one of the absolute top mages on the server in my PUG, but that’s been the end of my own progression through that content. Why? Because it’s no longer necessary. The loot drops in those Heroics are abysmal compared to other Heroics, and the Heroics themselves are difficult. I’d like to at least SEE Murmur in his full glory rather than the nerfed version they have in the regular dungeon.

    The same or similar arguments will probably be able to be made for all these instances that will no longer be required for attunment as Blizzard lifts requirements. Why run something that won’t get you the best gear in the game if you can swing something “better”?

  3. Galadria Says:

    @Moleculor
    Part of the reason 5-mans are obsolete is the crafting and reputation rewards. Most of the good stuff you are going to want for raiding you can get with out doing much instancing.

    The reason you will get to see SSC is because you do NEED at least some 25-man gear to have a hope in T6 content. Just because you don’t HAVE to go through the attunement doesn’t mean you can go into BT in a smattering of quest greens and Kara gear and have a snowball’s chance in h3ll of downing those bosses. Your tank won’t be able to take the beating, your healers won’t be able to keep the raid alive and your DPS won’t be able to beat the enrage timer.

    What I really think guilds will (and currently do) skip is Gruul and Mag. You can do T5 content in Kara gear. I predict that most guilds will skip Vashj and Kael before going into Hyjal/BT, just like most skip Mag before going on to VR/Solarian/Hydross/Lurker.

  4. Amava Says:

    Hi, Galadria. Relatively new reader, I really enjoy the blog. Ok, on to the meat….

    I’m a new raider to Karazhan, so I’ve not really been through too many attunements. Personally, I don’t really care. If there are attunements, ok, cool, please just make them fun ones, so I can play the game and enjoy it. Please don’t make them tedious rep grinds or something artificial like that.

    Reading your post, I’d like to advise caution against one assumption. You mention that most of the blogs you read are in T5 content. I have no fact to base this on, but my instinct tells me that your average blogger is an advanced player who spends lots of time thinking about the game, reading about the game, studying the game, and will tend to progress further than the majority of players. If you use bloggers as your sample, you’ll end up with a skewed opinion of what the general population is like.

  5. Galadria Says:

    @Amava
    Glad you’re enjoying the blog, I’ll add yours to my reader :-)

    You make an excellent point, we in the blogging community to tend to be more “advanced” players (though there are those in the community who have several toons that have never seen 70). However even if half of the blogs I read are on T5 content, then I think I could reasonably say that 25% of guilds out there are in T5 content.

    If anyone knows where I can get this kind of information on what # of people are at any given level of progression, I’d be really interested to see that.

  6. Birkin Says:

    If you head over to wowjutsu.com, it will show you (based on Armory loot) what guilds are doing what content. It will also show you a % of guilds that have downed each boss. It’s very interesting data.

    There was even a thread started on Elitist Jerks .com yesterday about the data gathered on wowjutsu.

    Here’s the link for your viewing pleasure:

    http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t21472-wowjutsu_vault_data/

  7. Galadria Says:

    @Birkin
    Thanks for the link! I knew there had to be something out there.

    According to that chart (I can’t go look at WoWJutsu directly from work) the # of people in T5 is probably closer to 10-15% and Hyjal/BT around 8-13%. the chart is a little dificult to interpret for this purpose. Will throw in some eidts in the post.

  8. Bruennor Says:

    Just wanted to add something quick to this topic. My guild is currently in T5 content. We are 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK. Basically we are at the “key” wall. I was disappointed when I saw the attunement was being lifted but I also understand it as well. I’ve been raiding T5 content for months now, and I’ve gone through 2 guilds that have imploded over getting Kael and Vashj down. People in my situation would like the opportunity to see new content even if it is obsolete shortly afterwards. I rather see the inside of the instances before they are no longer run.

    On another side note:
    The fight complexity of Vashj and Kael is ridicules when you compare them to the other bosses in thier respective instances. The fights themselves are easy to describe on paper but to implement with all 25 people moving a well oiled machine is difficult. Oh and before I’m bombarded with QQ posts about cutting the dead weight and blah blah. I have to ask in response do you like telling friends they can’t come cause they can’t cut it?

  9. Galadria Says:

    @Bruennor
    Those two fights are very dificult and do require your best players. If you are having trouble leaving people out, I have a small recommendation. Keep them in the raid group and say something like this “X we’d like to try something different, could you be on stand by in case it doesn’t work and we need you?” You can vary the wording to suit the personality of the person you are dealing with, but by doing it this way you have made it clear that you value them, you just want to try something different for this encounter. Give them DKP for their time spent on standby so it’s not competly wasted time for them. It’s one of the hardest parts about leading a raid. The best thing you can do is to be polite but firm that they don’t fit on this particular run. Hopefully everyone can be mature about the situation (and btw, I don’t envy you, I’ve been on the deciding end of who gets to go but not had to tell people why they aren’t going). I wish you luck on your attempts, I’m sure Vlad would be willing to talk to you if you about those encounters if you’d like.

  10. Kestrel Says:

    What in heaven and earth is the problem with letting anyone who has gone to the trouble of getting to 70 see the T6 content right before the expansion comes out and it all becomes obselete anyway?

    Not a damned thing! :)

    I (now) have five level 70 characters, none of whom is fully keyed for Kara, much less has even been through the portal. Yes, I need to PUG more; I’d love to be running Tempest Keep instances and heroics. But I’m still having a blast! Now, I have a prayer of seeing SSC. Why is that a bad thing, in anyone’s view?

  11. Galadria Says:

    @Kestrel
    It’s a hazing thing I think :-) Those that went through the pain of having to kill Vashj and Kael to get into Hyjal and BT are thinking “I had it rough, why do they get it easy?”

    BTW, I don’t know how you handle 5 70 toons… I have enough trouble with my 1 :-)

  12. Bruennor Says:

    @Galadria

    Thanks for you encouragement and suggestions. I may have to try that approach. I would hate to do it but I agree with you Vashj and Kael require your best when doing attempts.

  13. Kestrel Says:

    BTW, the first paragraph of my earlier comment should have had quotes, italics, bold…because the “quote” tag doesn’t work. ;)

    Anyway…my question was more rhetorical. I understand why: In my opinion, it’s jealousy, but the same statement you made, Gala: “I had it rough, why do they get it easy?”

    As for 5 level 70s: Note that I am not raiding with any of them. The grass ain’t always greener. ;)

  14. Decii Says:

    I really don’t see anything wrong with it at all ^-^ I enjoy seeing the attunements lifted as content ages, ESPECIALLY for Hyjal/BT. I’ve heard from many people that most bosses in Hyjal and Black Temple still don’t hold a candle to the difficulty and coordination required for the final boss fights of SSC and TK. And even for those that got into Hyjal the hard way, the added title for having completed the attunement is just a hawt bonus (Hand of A’dal? Awesome *-* ).

  15. Bellwether Says:

    I dunno. I’m on the fence.

    First time I see “LF24M, BT” though, I’m going to cry.


  16. [...] been a ton of reactions to the removal of attunements. I killed Kael several weeks ago and all I’m about to get is some lousy title. [...]

  17. Thuenderman Says:

    I agree with you completely about how Blizzard has it right with slowly making the endgame content more accessible. I’d go a step further and say that they should learn from TBC and make it more purposeful. Make the nerfs and attunement breakdowns done as world or server events. Enough guilds have accomplished X so now the gate to Y is open to all guilds. That way you would accomplish the same thing: more people will be able to see the content and the hardcore raiders can have something to be proud of instead of QQing that everyone else has it easier then they did.


  18. [...] posted a discussion about how instances in TBC started out with attunments and bosses tuned to be very difficult, [...]


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